Klaus Barbie's uncovered audio recordings revealed chaotic details of Jean Moulin's demise, as Barbie actively sought information while seemingly causing distress.
With new audiotapes from the 1970s, the mystery surrounding Jean Moulin's death and the "Butcher of Lyon" deepens
In a stunning revelation, the American university of Stanford has exposed long-haul talks between a German journalist and Klaus Barbie, the infamous chief of the Gestapo in Lyon, recorded in 1979. The interviews, spanning 14 hours over six days while Barbie was in exile in Bolivia, have been available to the public for the first time. Franceinfo was offered a glimpse of this historic exchange.
: VIDEO. "He hurled his baby down the hallway like a toy": a documentary series delves into the horrors of Klaus Barbie Life appears to be rosy for Klaus Barbie in La Paz. At 67, he had achieved a colonel rank in the Bolivian army and seemingly thought himself invincible. This might explain why he spoke so candidly to Gerd Heidemann, a German journalist who pretended to be on his side during the six days of interviews.
Throughout the conversations, conducted in a variety of settings - a hotel's terrace, the streets of La Paz, and a cozy apartment shared by the Barbie family - Barbie recounted his wartime memories with a glint of humor. However, he grew serious when questioned about his involvement in torturing Jean Moulin, a prominent figure in the French Resistance, who died under his captivity.
"He wasn't tortured. We didn't harm him. I had a lengthy discussion with him about politics and everything. He told me at the time: you're losing the war, you cannot win. An exceptionally intelligent man. I sought to sway him, to convert him slowly, but I couldn't. Nothing. Not a whisper, not a whimper", explains Barbie during one of the recordings. "As long as we spoke about political matters, he was open. But the moment I started to ask him about London, his parachute jump, his activities, it all ended. That's why I admired him."
A Closer Look at Jean Moulin's Imprisonment
"I didn't torture Jean Moulin. He took his own life": this claim recurred throughout Barbie's interviews, casting doubts among historians but echoed now in his own words. "In prison, we had a basement downstairs. That's where he attempted suicide, Barbie admits, "He was tied by the hands, but I didn't think to bind him by the feet. The guards didn't pay attention. He would gain momentum and collide with the wall, cracking his skull open. That's why he perished. Then he was transported to Frankfurt and succumbed during transit*", recounts Barbie.
A Penetrating Self-Portrait
These previously unveiled recordings also unmask a more profound side of the "Butcher of Lyon". He speaks vividly of his pride in capturing Jean Moulin, expresses no regret for the horrors of his wartime acts, and reveals his cynical humor when reminiscing about planting flowers on Moulin's grave in Paris, while in Bolivia.
Military aspects discussed at length in the interviews, painting a picture that sheds light on previously unknown episodes of Barbie's professional life, such as his role in executing thousands of Jews in Amsterdam in 1941 and on the Eastern Front, several months afterward.
The details emerged by these accounts challenge a few beliefs that historians had previously accepted. Benedicte Vergez-Chaignon, a historian focusing on World War II in France, explains, "We've always believed Jean Moulin had capitalized on his movements within Montluc prison, moving towards or coming from interrogations, to throw himself down the stairs. This version had raised eyebrows among those familiar with Montluc prison, as the stairs are not extremely high and appear more like half-landings, making it hard to envision Moulin's fall being fatal. In the version presented by Barbie, Jean Moulin, while confined to his cell, repeatedly struck his head against the wall for three hours, eventually killing himself. These interviews highlight Jean Moulin's incredible resistance to interrogation, as well as his determination to maintain his silence despite political discussions."
The revealing audiotapes from the 1970s present insights into Klaus Barbie's involvement in politics, as he discussed his wartime experiences with humor but grew serious when questioned about Jean Moulin's torture.
Barbie's accounts challenge the previously accepted version of Jean Moulin's death, suggesting that he perished after colliding with the wall of his cell in prison, not by falling down the stairs.
The interviews also shed light on Barbie's role in horrific events of the past, such as executing thousands of Jews and planting flowers on Moulin's grave in Paris.
Historians are re-examining policies and legislation surrounding crime and justice in light of these new revelations about Klaus Barbie's actions and the mystery surrounding Jean Moulin's death.
